最新的CPA和CA联合出品的SMSF教程上,明确说
Super是trust
具体文字如下
What is a Superannuation Fund?
A superannuation fund is a trust. As a trust, superannuation funds can hold assets (e.g. cash, property, shares, etc.) which are referred to as ‘trust property’. These assets are managed and held by a trustee on behalf of the trust’s beneficiaries. The beneficiaries are the superannuation fund’s members (and their dependants in the event of the death of the member).
The legislation which governs superannuation in Australia is the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993 (SIS Act) and its Regulations. Being a trust, a superannuation fund is also subject to trust law.
关于Trust的法律地位
CPA最新的Advanced Taxation 书里 ,对trustee的解释中,有如下语句
a trust is not a seperate legal entity,therefore, the trustee is the persn who operates the trust estate as legal owner of the trust property.
从上面可以推出SMSF是Trust,应该不具备legal entity的地位,
但是在CPA和CA的SMSF教程里却说:
The division between you as an individual and your SMSF must be transparent. An SMSF is a separate legal entity and must keep all records in its own name. As a trustee of an SMSF, you must ensure your personal assets are held separately from those belonging to your SMSF. An SMSF should have its own bank account and together with other fund assets must be clearly held in the name of the fund.
从上文可知,SMSF是个legal entity,
那 ~~~
究竟是还是不是啊~~~
已经醉了~~~~
呼唤大神快出现~~~
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谢谢楼上的都上的解答,收到了CPA的回信了
Dear XX,
A SMSF is a trust, it is governed by legislation.
It is not a separate legal entity, the trustee must not have legal title and must administer the trust on behalf of the beneficiaries.
I cannot see the context in which you have quoted the study material. I assume it relates to the requirements that all members must be trustees and all trustees must be members unless a corporate trustee is used. The same person can be both a beneficiary and a trustee.
The study material cautions the individuals to treat the property they hold in trust completely separate from their personal property.
Regards, Rob
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这个人觉得这个entity的定位可以衍生出很多有意思的问题,
比如,如果是seperate entity,我会选择风险大的investment option, 比如以非常乐观的态度看楼市,如果失败,大不了trust 破产咯?如果成功,就是风险多大,利润就多高啊,~~~LOL
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问题很难么?
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所以读cpa就这样。。。
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楼上的头像十分恰当的表达了此刻的心情
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呼唤大婶
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看着就纠结。 不懂帮顶- -
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我的理解是:
“a trust is not a seperate legal entity,therefore, the trustee is the persn who operates the trust estate as legal owner of the trust property.” 这个里面的trust是指trust entity 本身不是一个分离的legal entity,它是由trustee控制,经营和管理。TRUST是个抽象的概念,是个OBLIGATION加在TRUSTEE上的。如果trust有法律上的纠纷,追究的不是trust,而是trustee.
"An SMSF is a separate legal entity and must keep all records in its own name. "这里强调的是SMSF的资产和individual的关系,即SMSF里的资产是在SMSF的,在SMSF环境里的。资产是与INVIDIDUAL分离的。
所以这两个“SEPARATE”的对象是不同的。
最后,我写的时候也绕晕了。
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我也醉了
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谢谢,楼上的回帖,和棒顶的
回到最初的问题,就是一个问题
SMSF具备法律自然人的地位么?就像company样?
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这个帖子看的人很多,回答得人很少,看来真的是有点难度
决定给CPA去信了,
收到准确消息再告诉大家!
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SMSF具备法律自然人的地位么?就像company样?--可以有。。比如 superfund managed by corporate trutee..
简单来说就是建立一个空壳公司,以公司的形式来管理superfund 。。应为公司是legal entity 。。所以*******。。
当然, 如果SMSF是用个人来管理,那么SMSF自然也具备法律自然人的地位。。这种情况一般都是夫妻双方都是
SMSF收益人同时也是SMSF的member 。。这种适合小于2m左右资产的小客户
(其一般投资行为为,外汇,股票,期权,和投资房收益(residentail property无贷款) 以及现金。。
如果SMSF资产小于2m ,资房收益(residentail property有贷款)那就要用corporate trutee 拉。。
如果SMSF资产大于2m 。。必须用corporate trutee,不解释。
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谢谢楼上的,
SMSF具备法律自然人的地位么?就像company样?--可以有
-----------可以有的意思是SMSF的地位还可以有多种选择么?
再者,SMSF是个trust,这个没有疑义把?
既然是trust那么根据CPA的解释,is not a seperate legal entity,
并且我在网上搜了下,基本上都说trust 不是seperate legal entity,
比如QLD周政府的网页,
A trust is not a separate legal entity. A trust may be discretionary (i.e. the trustee decides how profit will be distributed among beneficiaries) or have fixed interests (i.e. it will benefit certain people in predetermined proportions).
http://www.business.qld.gov.au/business/starting/business-startup-options/business-legal-structures/trust-structure
而PWC解释的就稍微详细点,那说的是在经济上是一个seperate entity,在法律上则不是
A trust may be a separate economic entity from the trustee for accounting and financial purposes, but it is not legally separate。
但如我帖子所陈述的,CPA的教程,很明确的说SMSF is a separate “legal ”entity .
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Lz, 是不是legal entity和是不是separate legal entity是两回事。
上面这些材料没有否定Trust作为legal entity
但是separate legal entity就要看上下文说的是谁,beneficiary, grantor还是trustee
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站在读法律的人的角度来看,我和会计的切入点有些许不同。
我画个图
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Trust 就是trust,先把separate legal entity 这一说放一边。
我们换另外一个角度看问题:
破产法里,trust 的资产是不在瓜分财产的清单里的。
假设你破产,你有房子一栋,车,现金,股票和trust (family或 superannuation。。。)
那么清算师来估算,会没收你的房子,车,现金,股票,但不能碰你的 trust (暂时这么说,因为是有例外的)
那么,如果有个混蛋,奸淫掳掠骗抢贩毒卖军火,然后把所有的钱放进trust里,然后宣布破产。
他不是很快乐?
那些黑钱全部都安全了,谁也碰不了?
于是有 alter-ego 这么一说。
alter-ego 的意思就是,钱是你投进去的,管理者是你,收益人是你,appointer又是你......虽然你说trust 不是你,其实这个trust就是你alter-ego 的存在。
这种邪恶的'alter-ego' trust是不被保护的。
离婚,破产,犯法......trust 里的资产仍然会被清算,该赔的还得赔。
Alter-ego 可以延伸到公司去。
例如你开一个公司来管理自己的family trust。公司director是你自己,股东又是你自己,管理的trust 又是你自己投钱进去的。
那么你的family trust仍然不能跟你自己个人完全撇清关系。
架构一个安全的trust是很复杂的。我研究这个问题将近半年,才把它摸透。
说到这里,不多说了。
剩下的让会计师去说。
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楼上正解。。 2012 trust law amend的了很多很多。
我们现在帮客户设计trsut appointer 必须是第3方。。
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谢谢楼上的都上的解答,收到了CPA的回信了
Dear XX,
A SMSF is a trust, it is governed by legislation.
It is not a separate legal entity, the trustee must not have legal title and must administer the trust on behalf of the beneficiaries.
I cannot see the context in which you have quoted the study material. I assume it relates to the requirements that all members must be trustees and all trustees must be members unless a corporate trustee is used. The same person can be both a beneficiary and a trustee.
The study material cautions the individuals to treat the property they hold in trust completely separate from their personal property.
Regards, Rob
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由此可见
SMSF不是一个separate legal entity
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