小弟的连锁咖啡店快交易了，现在对到底是开PTY LTD还是开FAMILY TRUST比较疑惑。这两个都有人说好。到底是哪种性质比较适合这种小生意呢，特别是对以后合理避税等方面。小弟家庭成员简单，今后可能还会再开1-2个这种店。
现在一头雾水，请各位大仙指点迷津。
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现在哪里还有人害怕上税的，都怕不挣钱
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你这等于纯灌水！ 请懂的朋友指教
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这个我们开店前也纠结了下~~其实也很容易选择!FAMILY TRUST最好是你拥有资产大于300万以上,因为F/T每年产生的费用不是一笔小数,如果资产大不想TAKE RISK当然是F/T好了~~就是说就算万一你生意失败,你有F/T的话也不能清算UNDER F/T的资产,但如果你资产100万都没有,那就不值得了,要做店钱就要做好功课,买点不要贪便宜,肯便宜卖的店,多半不会好哪去~~如果你对自己的生意有信心的话我觉得公司形式就可以了,澳洲现在虽然说经济不好,但小生意还是比较稳定的,希望对LZ有所帮助!
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就是说就算万一你生意失败,你有F/T的话也不能清算UNDER F/T的资产???????????
那就是跟pty ltd 一样的？
turst前期设立费高。company前期低，以后每年asic注册费
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现在都是会需要personal guarentee的~ 对比一下每年的费用~小生意没太大必要动到family trust 个人觉得
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大家动不动就说“因为F/T每年产生的费用不是一笔小数”
可以告诉我有什么费用吗？我就是family trust，除了每年报税，没别的开销
不知道是人云亦云，还是不了解family trust，就想当然认为费用不少
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对于PTY LTD来说,如果你是SHARE HOLDER,当然不会清算你个人资产,但是如果你是DIRECTOR,当然还是会清算个人资产的啊,自己开店的人都是自己做DIRECTOR,所以当然是有区别的啊!!
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求正解，我的情况， 用哪个合适
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F/T建立时是一笔不小的钱,然后其实最主要的是F/T之间房产资产转让时税务上产生的费用大,这里面的学问大了去了,反正就是如果真的很有钱,那肯定用这个了,这个东西当初被发明出来就是有钱人设计出来用来保护有钱人自己利益的法律,但当然也有些人,当初是会计师误导,其实根本不需要这个东西,而且也不存在以后F/T之间资产转移的问题的,所以只付报税的钱就可以了!!反正当初我的会计师就不建议我们用F/T,说有些会计师希望客户用这个是因为成立时他们会计师的利润也会多一些吧~~
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你也没有说你什么身价,但我个人觉得,如果你的实力可以不用贷款开几个连锁的话,那应该用F/T,因为多花点钱但可以保证个人资产安全还是值得的,还有就是生意都是有风险的,就当给自己买个保险吧!~~
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LZ多想想生意接手后怎么做好是最重要的。P/LOK了
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多谢你的回答，除了对钱多的人更多保护 和 F/T 开账号的时候费用更高 之外。后续费用和公司相比呢？ 退税的时候，需要有额外手续吗？ 还有其他方面，有不一样的吗？
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2L说的很精点。LZ第一个能做好就很好了别的以后在说。希望半年一年后能看到你的好运贴。
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具体要问你的会计师啊!!请各好的会计师,这个钱是最不能省的!!还有希望你可以用心做好自己的店!!我只有一个店,可是觉得即使一个小店做好都是不容易的,LZ要做好打硬仗的准备啊~做生意是什么事情都可能发生~要做好充分的心理准备,用最经典的话就是:做生意要有一颗强大的内心!!
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Example in general situtation:
Husband(1 share) Wife (1 Share)
\ /
\ /
\ /
\ /
Holding 2 shares Company
Name: H & W Pty Ltd (Trustee company of the Family Trust) ->ACN No.
|
|
H & W Family Trust
|
|
Holding Cafe Business (with ABN & GST)
/ | \
/ | \
B1 B2 B3
B: Beneficiary
Set up fees: Registered a new company with ASIC and preparation of company consitution
Family Trust (preparation of trust deed)
Application of new ABN no. and GST from ATO
Cafe Shop Business Name Register
- Tax agent normally will charge about $2,000-$2,500 for the whole package (depended on how much you
bordered them) - Some clients would ask too many little questions, blind questions.
Annual Running Fees: Bookkeeping fees (if you know how to use MYOB or Quickbook to prepare account, free cost. If you
don't know, employ a bookkeeper. They normally charged $30-$40 per hour depended on their
experience. To save their time, your cost, you should put all documents in order with different files.
Such as all expenses paid by cheques, wrote down cheque number on tax receipts & invoices, then
placed into one folder. All tax receipts & invoices paid by cash placing into another folder. All ATO
correspondence with one folder. All cash register receipts for turnover should be kept in another
folder, and with note book to record how much for cash sales, credit sales etc per day. All wages
payments and employees' records should be setup by two separate folders.)
Accountant's fees: Preparation of ASIC annual return for the trustee company (about $300 pa)
Annual financial report, tax planning for coming year, preparation of tax return &
lodgement fees (depended on how big your business was, generally could cost
$2500 - $3000pa for turnover above $500K or above if the bookkeeping
accounts were properly done. Some of owners did not have accounting concept
or inexperience bookkeepers could create messy accounts, it could cost more
accountant's fees. I had an experience to charge more than $9,000 accounting
fees because of the bookkeeper has cooked up the book and I would have to
re-do most of the account for the year)
The benefit to have a trustee company to hold family trust, that is to limit the liability of the business. Meanwhile, the net profit of the business could be distributed into family members for tax saving purpose.
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资产转移时产生的stamp duty
不管你把自己的房产转成pty还是trust，变换都会有税务
pty就是股份制，大家按股份分红
family trust财产可以在家庭成员里面自由分配
例如我父母移民了，有了税号，我可以分一部分钱给他们
*当然，要附带考虑以后拿centrelink福利方面是否有影响
另外，公司要给父母钱的话，可以让父母注册一个abn，以向公司提供sub contractor的形式拿钱
既然做了生意，生意本身风险就很大，也不要指望trust的财产保护了，除非你另外成立一个trust，用作财产保护
当然现在ato在trust报税，分钱上面做了很多规定，例如如何分钱要在6月30日决定（这个很蛋疼，问候ATO他全家），所以，图省心的话，建议还是pty
如果想弄trust，建议自己多做research
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我的理解是PTY应该是在F/T下面的，不知道有没有说错。
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No. By law, Family Trust is run by trustee. The Trustee of Family Trust normally is either individual or a company. Since trust normally does not distribute income to trustee, it would be better to have a trustee company. Of couse, it also depended on what business is under the family trust.
The reaosons why trustee does not distribute income to trustee itself as below:
1. If the company went wrong, in most of situation by law, the administrator could chase back dividends or salaries which already were given out to directors/shareholders. However, it's difficult to chase back the income which was already distributed to beneficiaries by family trust.
2. If family trust went wrong, by law people normally sue and lodge claims against trusteee. If trustee got assets or income, the trustee might have to compensate by using these assets and income. Therefore, normally do not place assets or distribute income back to trustee or trustee company.
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大家都去咨询会计师吧，即使在这里问了，还是要去找会计师的
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借帖子问一下，父母是海外的，投资到生意里，怎么合理分配股权分红以及避税呢。
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Another reason to have a family trust rather than company that is for CGT consideration.
Company doesn't have Capital Gains Discount tax benefits, however, family trust can distribute out gross capital gains to individuals which allows individuals to have Capital Gains Discount.
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请会计师是需要的
网上讨论也是需要的
no offence，有点基本知识，你也能判断会计师得好坏
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General Information:
1. Set up an Australian company which must have at least one director who is Australian resident. Shareholders are unnecessary to be Australian Residents.
2. Non-tax residents normally paid higher tax than Australian tax residents.
3. Generally it's difficult to 避税 under company structure.
Regarding to legally 避税, it depended on the real situation. LZ did not provide detailed information, it's hard to give an advice.
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同意的 在这里我也学到了很多东西
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现实中，小生意建议用trust，灵活简单
真正生意做的很大，就应该选择company了，生意做大后就应该走向正规化，company不会影响cash flow，也不会在申请任何许可的时候产生障碍，而且生意做大后，就应该建立不同的entities管理不同的资产，业务等等
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正解
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学习了
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学习
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简单来说如果是同一个生意 用Company还是Family Trust 会计费用差不了太远 唯一不同的是company每年需要做个review 这个要至少两百多块.
至于税务上用哪个好 Trust和COMPANY 都有很大的灵活性可以分散收入 虽然操作上有所不同但最后可以达到类是的效果 以往Family Trust可以给未成年的家庭乘员分配$3333的免税收入 但是这已经从明年起消减为416. 所以分散收入这方面两者几乎没有差别
简单来说
如果需要持有资产 例如房产, 股票, 生意经营的商铺 这种情况用Trust 好 因为Trust能享受CGT 50% 的折扣而company不能. Trust 还有保护资产的作用 例如即使个人欠贷 债主也未必能 assess family trust 的资产.
如果单纯是作为经营生意的个体 Company会是更好的选择 因为任何公司的责任和负债都不牵涉到个人. 而且需要转让生意的话 比如说把生意转让给孩子管理 可以轻易的转让company的股权 比trust 方便. Trust 的存在取决于设立人的存在 (settlor) 如果settlor 去世了 family trust就瓦解了 但公司没有这问题
我有不少客人以trust 持有资产 同时由Company 运作生意
希望这样说说 能明白一点
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